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Long time ESOP skeptic Jay Goltz attended an ESOP seminar that initially caused him anxiety, but ultimately led to clarity that an ESOP is right for his business. He believes an ESOP provides stability and helps employees retire well, without some of the risks that come with selling to an outside buyer. Jay and Shawn discuss whether employees are really "owners" in an ESOP and conclude the messaging should focus more on the benefits of stability and retirement savings. They also note that many accountants and lawyers don't fully appreciate the non-financial reasons entrepreneurs choose ESOPs.